Service Animals - Ep. 7 - Emotional Support Robot

Transcript

Chris: 0:17

Hello and welcome to Service Animals. I'm your host, Chris Connors. Please grab yourself a seat and join me for episode seven. This is the podcast by the service industry about the service industry, life, and everything else. First and foremost, this is a show for all of us to share our experiences and insights. So if you'd like to be a part of it, you can call in at(720) 515-7218. Leave a message and let me know if you have a story to share or advice to ask for. You can also email for the same reasons at Service Animals roar@gmail.com. Come be a guest on the show, anonymous or recognized. Share your best tales. Promote your craft, and have a laugh with me. It's good to be back everyone. Thanks for joining me again. I appreciate you, uh, milestones this week. We hit a hundred total downloads yesterday, so woo-hoo. I appreciate you all. Thank you. That was really cool to see. Couldn't be happier. It's, uh, ups and downs, recording a show by yourself and putting something out every week, even procrastinating as I have again done this week. You wanna know what time it is? Last week it was 1 46, I think, when I recorded This is 1 26. So I'm, uh, I'm improving by 20 minutes a week and eventually we'll get back to releasing on Tuesday. I, I promise. So, yeah, for now, uh,, just trying to meet the milestone of one episode a week is, uh, is enough for me. So, yeah, and honestly, like I've been working, I think I'm doing like 12 straight days right now. Like I've, uh, you know, we've had a couple of people leave the bar recently and, uh, I've just been trying to pick up hours.'cause in two weeks I'm going to a music festival called E 11 and I'm super excited. So I'm gonna be gone for about a week and I'm trying to save up money right now. Um, but yeah, that's what's going on with me. I'm honestly super tired and, uh, recording late after a very long day. But, um, really glad to be here. And, uh, the more everyone downloads and the more people keep coming back, the more I want to keep doing this. So, yeah, means a lot. And thank you so much. Uh,, This week in service. So globally, as I like to talk about, frequently AI and robotics, I've had the story saved since pre COVID, believe it or not. Uh, let me pull it up here. So this is. Uh, robot Bartending Company is handing out cash to the people it is replacing. This is published December 11th, 2019, so even all the way nearly six years ago, this was already something that was becoming more and more commonplace. Um, so I'm gonna just, uh,, briefly read this a bit to you. Uh, one startup taking a welcome, proactive step into this world of, uh, tech companies and robotics and bartending is Maker Shaker, the company behind Tony, which describes itself as quote, the world's leading robotic bartending system. Oh, it's terrifying to read. Uh, so been doing this 15 years. They're about to take me out back and shoot me like, we don't need you anymore, Chris. Um, anyway, uh, maker Shaker just announced that it's launching the world's first automatic stipend. For every robot bartender that it sells, the company is going to be handing over a$1,000 monthly stipend to a select person in a field, likely to be affected by automation. The pilot program will kick off in December before arriving in Europe later in 2020. So yeah, I think this is fascinating quite honestly. Like it's the first, and before I was even aware of the term UBI, universal basic income. This is obviously a welcome first step into the much needed remedy for automation, uh, AI and the like, uh, which is gonna be a universal basic income of some kind, you know, or what? Like there are essentially two options that I'm gonna keep coming back to and I think are pretty obvious options, but the more technologically advanced our world and society becomes, the more. Egregious and morally bankrupt. It is going to seem, for there to be any disparity in a wealth or opportunity or at least basic needs being met. So what I mean is like you picture jobs being replaced first and foremost. Like this company replacing me bartenders, uh, with robots. And what will I do after that? Well, you know, hopefully I, I have other skills so I could do something else. But you know, the basic, the basic function is the same. It's like, it's the more automation occurs, the more these jobs are gonna be replaced, and not every company is going to just do this out of the goodness of their heart, right? So I think there's got to be a government-wide, society-wide initiative, like a universal basic income that will allow us to still buy goods and services. As we continue to be less needed in the workforce and obviously continue to make less money, therefore, So the article continues. Uh, according to Maker Shaker, the first recipient of the scheme will be 50-year-old Brian Townsell, a US citizen who has worked in restaurants and hotels for much of his career. Yeah, so basically it's like, I mean, I'm turning 38 soon and. You know, it feels weirder and weirder getting older in an industry that is continuously replacing staff with younger and younger people. Obviously, um, not all the time, but often enough and where, you know, I feel it more in my body. I feel it more in my joints and sore muscles, especially not having a day off for a long while now. It's been, it's been a bit rough. Um, but yeah, it's, it's kind of obvious like the direction this is going. Like even young people coming in who would've replaced me in the past are now themselves gonna be replaced by something that doesn't need breaks, doesn't need to get paid. Um, if you, if you take a look on, uh, the website here, it's pretty fascinating. Maker is spelled, uh, MAKR and Shaker is S-H-A-K-R. So very chic and cool. Um, I. This is, uh, their homepage is literally a, a picture of a bustling bar, and there's no one behind a bar. It looks like an Apple store counter. Uh, there's probably about a hundred bottles stacked in the ceiling arranged with their tops facing down. And then this one or two rather robotic arms are just moving around and gripping cups, and pulling spouts and getting liquor poured and mixing drinks. In fact, the next page switches over now to say the master mixologist, which, uh, even as a fan of mixology, I would never call myself, uh, a master, but certainly on the path to, uh, appreciating and growing in mixology is always fun. But when you have a robot that is doing everything that you can do, and it's doing it more precisely with zero waste, perfectly measured shots every time, Obviously no breaking glass, no anything. I mean, this is the most sterile situation I've ever seen in my life. It's like a social situation mirrored by something that looks incredibly dystopian, blank, and, emotionless. You know, it's kind of weird. So yeah, it's just a weird thought to think that, you know, these, these basically where these things are popping up are on cruise ships. Uh, they have a couple rooms in Vegas. They're being paired with like high tech golf simulator rooms, stuff like that. So basically you order on like an iPad or your phone or whatever, and it makes you drink and puts it right up for you and. Probably much, much faster, or at least as fast, uh, than the average bartender I'd imagine. But God, what a weird image These all are. I'm like scrolling down and I'm seeing these like beautiful spaces, like these futuristic looking dance spaces or like a cocktail, uh, reception for a, a business or something. And all of them look nice with the people there. And then you look at the centerpiece and it's just two robotic arms and a hundred bottles hanging from the ceiling. It's so crazy, man. Uh, it's, it's good. I still get compliments every day about what I do because if I didn't, I would feel much more replaceable by what I'm looking at. It's like the, the mixology factory is not exactly what I consider what I do every day with my life. Um. Yeah. And this week's been nice. I've had a, a couple good interactions. There was a couple at the bar that I've seen before and they, uh, they always say how in the coming, but, uh, the husband this time asked me like, have you ever, like, are you in any bartending competitions or anything?'cause I think you could win. I'm like, hell yeah, dude. Thank you. That was, that's really sweet to hear that. Um, but yeah, it's stuff like that, like most days of my job where I'm like, at least as far as trades go, as far as something that like, you don't really need a lot of schooling to do, but you, you have infinite levels for growth in bartending. Um, you know, I think it's a little more insulated from automation, like I've said before, I believe. But stories like this genuinely put into perspective how not safe any of us are really in whatever field we're in from the effects of AI and automation, as I keep hammering on every week, and I apologize if you find it boring, I find this fascinating. I mean, every single intelligent and well-spoken person in their field related to this topic says that it's going to be bigger than the internet. It's gonna change the world and revolutionize work and. Obviously social structure. So I think following this as it unfolds is a helpful, uh, a helpful mirror to keep holding myself against and just keep saying like, okay, what am I doing now? How am I responding to the changing world, et cetera. So, uh, but yeah, even in 2025, uh, maker Shaker is still going strong and, um, these pictures are terrifying. I don't know, man, like, it's the first time I'm seeing like real images of something that you just like, hear about like, oh, like robots are coming for our jobs. It's like, yeah, but I'm looking at the robots and it's like they're not doing a bad job and I can see all their proportions and their pores and like, I think the thing is though, like, here's the thing, you get human beings. You get them in a room and get them drinking together. I think you have to be human to understand the vibe that arises from that. You know what I mean? Like drinking for humans is obviously a, a social endeavor mainly. It, it, it breaks the ice, it loosens the mood, helps you feel more relaxed. We all know this. It's been used throughout history. A robot doesn't know that. It doesn't know what that feels like, like, like it's hard to even relate to a bartender who doesn't drink sometimes. You know, I, I've saw it in Wisconsin especially where the culture is so much more geared towards drinking. Here in Colorado it's a little more, you know, geared towards fitness and outdoors and whatever. So not everyone is so into the drinking culture, but it's still plenty normalized to be, you know, a day drinker or, you know, whatever. But, um, I guess I'm just saying that like a, a bartender who doesn't drink or has never been drunk certainly is serving a substance that they know only a, a bit about, you know?'cause you can know the flavor, you can know the smells, you can know, uh, how to mix. You can know, uh, wine pairings and all those things. And you can even just taste those things very briefly and spit'em out or whatever, and that's whatever. But if you don't know the full effects of what you're serving, you're gonna have a lacking level of knowledge and wisdom about how to safely and also effectively serve your product. Right? Like if you know how much it takes for you to feel a little tipsy and what that level looks like, and when off of one glass of wine versus two, versus you know a whole bottle, then you know much better how to gauge the level of tolerance of the people you're serving, how they're acting and behaving, how you should expect them to act and behave. You know, there's a level of leniency and understanding that kind of comes from being a person that's like, yeah, I'm not in a wink. Like, I got you, man. Like we've all been there. Like, you know? So I guess just having a robot there to not even acknowledge or be kind of a. Part of your experience, you know, people at the bar, if they're getting a little drunk, I've said this before, but it's kind of a sexy vibe. It's, it is a loosening up vibe. It's a, we can fuck around and talk about whatever we want, kind of vibe. Like to have a robot arm staring blankly at you like they can at least put googly eyes on this thing to make it less fucking creepy. This is incredibly weird. Like, I, I would rather see something be more silly than, than this sterile, you know what I mean? This looks like a, this looks like the, it looks extremely similar to the arm that they swing in front of you at the dentist's office. You know, it's like the bright light above you. It's a, it's a, a sturdy white plastic medical grade looking thing. Um, and just like, no, who wants to get drunk with that? No one wants to get drunk with that. Man, it is just like, yeah, but I, I wish they would've dressed it up like a, like, like a furry arm or like an a, a a monster hand, or like a, you know, just, yeah, put a, put a face on it, put googly eyes on it. Like you gotta, I, I don't know. It is just a, an instinct. I have to, it's just not stare at this fucking creepy arm. Anyway, I, I belabor the point. But yeah, in general, it's just like we're taking experiences that kind of require, in a way, the human element of it. And we're, we're outsourcing it to AI and robotics. And in some cases that can be not the worst trade. For instance, uh, customer service, you know, is having a lot of layoffs at the moment, uh, losing, opportunities to AI who are infinitely patient. Don't mind if you swear at them. Don't mind, you know, if you're angry, will answer every question. Have like the knowledge base of the entire company, which you can feed, uh, you know, individually as a library. Just be like, here, here's only know everything about our company. Don't go to the internet. Don't go, don't go outside of this like bounds of knowledge. Like, so they can end up knowing more than some other customer service agent who isn't engaged with their job and they can speak to you in a respectful and kind way for hours on end if that's what you need. Um, generally, you know, in the AI. Services I've seen, I've used, uh, Amazon's, um, chatbot, uh, just typing to it. And that has always worked really well to get, like things replaced or if a package got stolen, very easy to just tell the ai, Hey, my package got stolen. It's like, cool, we'll send a replacement. No worries. So even just little interactions like that being replaced, fine, you can picture that being more efficient, you know, less labor cost, whatever, so you get that replacement. But replacing a bartender or a server that's like these people, these, you know, obviously that's my industry, so that's what I talk about. But like, there's so many service sectors that I feel will aim to replace their workers with, uh, with these robotic systems and ai not realizing how much of a hit it's gonna take for the human interaction and what you're losing from a, a face-to-face, maybe a human touch, or otherwise. Something that a robot can't provide. Having said that, you know, having them on cruise ships and, you know, places like 24 hour bars at a casino that's open all night or something like that, you know, whatever. I get it. If there's a time of night, if, especially if there was a time of night, that makes a lot of sense. Like, I really don't want to picture bartending anymore until 2:00 AM like two to 4:00 AM is like a rough time to stay open. Like, I'm not in my twenties anymore and, you know, I'm not doing those kind of drugs anymore. So it's a, it's a rougher experience to do that. But I could picture closing down at say, like one, um, at a really swan bar and then saying goodnight to everybody. Uh, you know, maybe coming out myself, taking off my, uh, my suit and tie and coming out and hanging out with my guests. And being served by a robot bartender, you know, who didn't need to sleep, who could work third shift, which we know via studies is truly terrible for humans to do. Um. Places being more available and services being more available. Uh, 24 7 I think is an interesting place that I haven't thought of before where I'm like, yeah, I could see how AI and robotics making this just a ubiquitous service, that you don't have to wait for a certain time or for it to be available. I think that would be a very cool, Innovation to have in society, you know, to, and to not take away jobs from people, but to not have people do jobs that are inherently unhealthy for them. Like third shift work or, you know, 24, I used to go to a, uh, man, man in Wisconsin, uh, chain that's, I'm not sure if the chain is open anymore or I'm sure it's still there, but the, the location that I grew up on, um, I used to have sleepovers with my friend Nick. Uh, shout out Nick, if you ever hear this, but, um, we would play video games like most of the night. Uh, if I apologies if I already told this story. I don't remember if I did. Um, but we would basically, you know, we had the similar hobby of video games and, um, you know, talk in philosophy and like deep conversations essentially. So we would, uh, both buy a two liter of soda. I did Pepsi, heated Coke, we put'em in the freezer, let them get to like a slushie. Uh, bring them downstairs to the basement and just drink those and play Xbox, uh, until our eyes, blood essentially, basically until about like four or five in the morning. And then we'd walk over to, uh, this George Webbs, which is just a local diner. Um, I think it's a chain that's very local to Wisconsin or just the Midwest, uh, states in general. Um, but I love this place. It was like a breakfast place. I always got like steak and eggs, toast, that kind of thing, like hash browns. It was just amazing, right? Um, I almost forgot why I was bringing this up. I'm like, man, I'm just reminiscing about this fucking place. It was really good. Uh, anyway, but you know, we had a particular cook in there that we like always saw who was like, you know, like people who work Thursday shift at a diner like that look like they're from a rough walk of life, right? Like, uh, so, but, but we loved him. He was a really cool guy and always like hooked us up with, uh, with food or whatever. Um. But that time of night, it's not like he was looking to like talk to anybody. He was just getting his job done and, and working from like, you know, one to seven in the morning, that kind of thing. Uh, so I could see those kind of jobs and letting sleepovers still exist like that, but not having to have cooks and servers that are like, oh my God, why am I awake? I only have, imagine how slow you can think a serving shift is, right? And then imagine it being two in the morning and you have to be there for the next four hours and you have no idea how many people are gonna walk in and you two tips could be whatever for the night, right? Um, so yeah, it's just, I could imagine late night, uh, establishments and those kind of, uh, venues being better suited to having, something that could stay up all night and not need to sleep like a robot bartender or, uh, you know. It's the replacement's coming, like servers being replaced by iPads that's already half here. We still have people operating the iPads, but essentially that's, that can go away and we can all picture, like imagine an iPad on wheels just rolling to the tables and letting you select your order. Like how, how many of us think that's not possible to happen or are not already happening somewhere. Um, and this robot bartender is just another example of that. So I think I've gone on enough about it, but, uh, yeah, pretty fascinating. Uh, the company again is Maker Shaker and, um, still going strong even though I've saved that article since pre COVID. So it was already a thing before all this, uh, hit. And I think COVID really accelerated automation and obviously companies thinking about robotics in general because we all saw what happened when the workforce essentially had to shut down for the years it did. Um, uh, so yeah, I think a lot of companies are picturing ways that that could reoccur and how to mitigate of risk in the future. All righty. So personally, my weekend service, uh, man, it's been an interesting one. Like I said, I've been working pretty nonstop. Um, this week. I, uh, had the inclination to start a new segment. We're calling bad behavior at the Bar'cause I like the alliteration. Um, but yeah, oh my God. Uh, bad behavior number one. So, uh, open mouth coughing, open mouth coughing. Are we not all scarred from COVID? Do we not remember what it was like to wear masks for years? To be worried at every single cough, to turn your head, to judge everybody for at all coughing near you, possibly getting you sick. Do you remember that stress? Because I do. I remember pepper farmer members. Um, I just can't believe anybody post COVID would ever, ever cough openly. Just open. Not even a hand, not a hand, not a crook of the elbow, not a cover, not anything, not a napkin, not nothing, not sticking your face directly into your plate and coughing there. That would be more appropriate and less weird than just staring blankly into space and projectile your breath and your fucking cough everywhere around you. I just think that's the, oh my God. Oh, it gets me up. I can't, I can't believe that. Like I saw it multiple times this week, multiple times. And in the meantime, I'm, I've just come out of, I think the last two or three weeks and I have seen more people sick than usual. Like a lot of people coughing and most of them and like into something, but just man being at a bar. Just like, just anywhere. Imagine being at, at your bank and they don't have one of those plastic screens up and you're like within two feet, three feet of them. Right? And you just look at them and then open your mouth and cough at them. That's what it's like being a bartender. Okay. That's, you just have people who are like not thinking or not caring and then just opening their mouth and coughing towards my face and I'm like, you don't even know how OCDI am about germs and you're doing this to me. Like this is just rude to do to any normal person, much less a guy who thinks about this like I do. So, God man, is that frustrating? Oh, anyway, I just had to mention that. Um, okay. Uh, bad behavior number two. Watching something loud on your phone, sitting at the bar. Sitting at a table, fine. That's, that's bad too. But at least you can be more away from people. I think sometimes if you're at the bar, you're central, you're obviously around people, you're around other patrons, your bartender, anything. There's music playing. We pay for music to play. We don't need your music. We had that covered, like it's just, and this week it was like a woman who was, uh, I like her and she's a regular, but she was listening to like, no, she was not just listening, but she was watching like a YouTube of like a, a musical number on her phone. I think it might have been like, uh, you know, from the New Wicked Movie or something. And I was just like, how are you doing this? Like, I love Wicked, but you can't watch a musical. On your phone full volume while like, this music is going, like MMM in the back and just like mixing terribly with this like musical number. And I'm just like, oh my God. Like, how are you enjoying this? No one enjoys it around you. You're not doing this for anybody else. You're, you're making us all pay attention to you now. Like, and we're not even hearing the full splendor of the musical you're listening to. We're just having to hear this half like MMM and then the musical playing. So it's like, yeah. Oh my God. Don't listen to things on your phone without headphones at the bar. Like, it's, it's like I said before, like the, the vibe of the bar is changing and people are gonna keep. Becoming more and more insulated. And it's not uncommon at all to see people be on the phone, on their AirPods, you know, like not having the volume projecting to the rest of the restaurant, but just being on headphones and taking a phone call isn't abnormal. Uh, just watching something while you're eating totally normal. Um, you know, uh, just, just other things like that where you're just privately away. You're privately yourself in a sea of people in a way, you know, you can be on your laptop working obviously, but you can be very alone at a bar, is what I'm saying. Um, and making other people a part of whatever you're doing and not, uh, just having headphones and doing it yourself is obviously insane. Um, so anyway, you'd be surprised how many people do that. That's why I'm, I'm going on a little about that, but anyway, sorry. Uh, yeah, so. Okay. So that was the fun part. This part's a little not as fun. Um, you might remember last week I talked about a woman, a regular that comes to the bar and she is pretty obviously being, uh, treated pretty poorly by her husband. And I was worried, I was very emotionally, uh, distraught from her experience and like. How that whole thing made me feel, um, to be worried to hear a line like, you know, if I end up dead, you know, what happened? That kind of thing. Like, you obviously hope that's an exaggeration, but you never quite know how serious people are. Right? So that was last week, and then this week, uh, they came in together like everything was fine. Nothing to be said, you know, I said hi to both of'em. I, you know, he comes in and, you know, he's always gregarious and nice to me. He says, Hey Chris, I shake his hand, you know, whatever. Um, yeah, I just, he went to the bathroom and he clapped me on the back with his big MIT and, uh, he was basically like, good to see you again. Chris And I thought about what I said last week and what I know. About how he treats her. And I, I don't know if you can imagine what it's like to just not be able to do anything and worry about this, this woman, and to not like being touched by this man, to not like feeling his hands either shaking my hand or on my shoulder. I just cringed and like pictured his hands hurting her, you know, and how insanely horrific that is. And man, I just like, I'm sorry to be a bummer. It's just like, this is what you deal with at the bar. Like, you have patrons that you don't always agree with politically or you think are gross morally, or you know, what their business is or what they do privately and you learn things that you can't repeat or, you know, you can't, uh, step in the middle of, um. And obviously the whole situation is much bigger than me, and they're adults and they should handle this. And sh you know, she's gotten all the advice she can from friends of hers. I've talked to friends of hers, they've talked to me, uh, I've talked to her like she knows what she needs to do all the things right, but just seeing them come in and sit down and just drink wine together and order a little food. And, you know, she was showing him like a funny video on her phone and they were being kind of like, you know, a little intimate or a little close seeming. I'm just like, God, life is weird. You know? Like, what a weird thing. IWI, I'm in relationships. I'm always so worried at like the smallest thing that I do, like, you know, like even like you try to make a joke. To a woman these days, and you are terrified of just saying the wrong thing. And being seen as a creep or trying to be funny and failing is often a, a surefire way of being, like rejected, uh, you know, at least mentally, um, if not externally, by, by people, especially women, uh, if you're trying to make them laugh. But, um, yeah, that being such a worry for me and then knowing that women will stay with men even if they're treated like she's being treated, even if they're being abused. It's a really tough thing, you know, as a man, you're, you're gauging your behavior off of like the spectrum of possible behaviors of all men. And it's weird to feel that and see that commitment, um, you know, towards something or someone that's obviously mistreating a person or, or showing what is a controlling, at the very least, uh. You know, harmful relationship. So, I don't know, man, it's, it's hard and kind of inexplicable to talk about, you know, what it's like to have to be cordial and upbeat and make conversation with people that you may find deplorable or the behaviors of deplorable. Um, and especially feeling his hand on me. I don't know, it just, it, it hit me in a different way, you know? Um, and I'm still gonna be kind to them and I'm still gonna just do my job and you gotta stay out of it essentially, and whatever. But they're, when you're being public with your drama, you're kind of making it a part of everyone's life that witnesses it, right? So, anyway, this is on my mind and it, it was, it was a weird thing. And talking about it last week made me feel more like weird about. Being kind to him, because now I put the story out there and I'm like, yeah, I don't know. Talking it out loud just made me feel weird about the, the whole role I have to play with, like being placating and just like being kind, even if I don't, Ugh. Anyway, you get it. Listener. I'm sorry. I don't mean to belabor the point or bring you down. Uh, but yeah, I have to be honest about like the experiences I go through every week. Um, I got another weird one, man. So I haven't had to, turn down anyone in a long time for drinking, vis-a-vis coming in, me judging them not to be, uh, you know, okay, getting a drink. Um, either they're already messed up on drugs or, too drunk, whatever the case may be. Um, in this case. We had a guy, lemme try to paint the picture. So he looked like a more rundown. Johnny Depp. Just picture Johnny in any of his more, uh, you know, vagabond, uh, emaciated movie rolls. And this guy fit the bill. Um, tattooed up the hands through the arms, uh, and kind of had this like, walk of a guy who was sure he should be where he was, but he had no idea where that was. Okay. So he walks in the wall, I'm wiping the bar, comes right up next to me, to my left. I look up, he's no more than a foot away at most. And he says, wow, you are striking. I said, oh, thanks man. That's really sweet of you. What's up? How you doing? Never seen him before. Uh, and he was like, good man. Like I. I'm just, uh, you know, I'm scouting the area, you know, just getting the, the scene. I'm like, oh, cool dude. Like, yeah, we got really good food here. We got good drinks. If you want to have a seat wherever you want. Like, the bar was empty at this point, so I'm just like, whatever. Um, yeah, sit down wherever you want, man. He's like, yeah, I don't really like to sit down. I'm like, okay. Uh, well that's cool man. Like, uh, so what can I do do for you? And he is just, again, like, he's now coming off like kind of a weirder dude, and I'm like, just listening intently looking for clues. And, uh, he is like, yeah, well I, you know, I just bought the place. So I'm, uh, just kinda like looking around, uh, getting the lay of the land and stuff. And I'm like, okay, dude. Like, like you you bought the restaurant you're in, you bought my restaurant. Is that what you're saying? Okay. So at this point, I know he is probably crazy, but, uh, I, I'm just talking to this guy. So, um, I. I'm like, yeah, okay. So like, cool man. So like, yeah, we got all these drinks, we got this kind of beer, we got this kind of food really great. Yeah, this, uh, really great pizzas, all this stuff. Um, and uh, I walked back around the bar trying to kinda like, say all that while walking away to get space and to grab him a couple menus and picture me walking behind the bar and walking parallel to him. And as soon as I reach parallel where he is on his side of the bar, he follows me step for step to the end of the bar where the menus are, right. And I just look up and I'm like, he's right there, like within a foot of me, like looking at me intently and I'm like, Hey man, like, what's up? And he's just like. Like, you know, where you move, I move and I'm like, what? I'm just, and again, like with weird people, especially in a public place, especially where you're trying to stay professional, you're always just putting on a smile and a, you're thinking right behind your smile. What the fuck is going on? This is weird. But you're always just smiling and being like, oh, like, no worries. It isn't weird at all. Like, I'm just grabbing you many. So, so I was like, what the fuck? So anyway, this guy is like, you move, I move. And then I'm like, okay. And he is like, it's not weird. I just like, you know, if someone, like in my life, like I'm close to them, I'm just like, I, it's something I have to do. Like I gotta be in step, like I have to move with them, you know? Like, you move, I move, you know? And he just keeps rephrasing this over and over and I'm like, yeah, okay, man. Like, and again, I'm like, if you want to grab a drink, you can have a seat. Like, and he is like, no, I don't really wanna sit down. Like, I don't, I don't really like sitting down. I'm like, okay. Uh. So he keeps standing there and he keeps reiterating like, yeah, it's just something I have to do, you know, like when I move, you know, I'm going through the world and you move, I saw you move. And I'm like, that guy moves, you know? And I'm like, he moves, I move. And then like obviously I know this guy is high out of his mind. Like we've all taken acid, right? No, but I have. And uh, it definitely, he was spacey and just rambling, that kind of thing. And not saying that's what acid does. I'm just making a joke. Um, but he was definitely on something. And uh, the funny line that he said, um, was like, he finally looked at me and maybe he became a little more self-aware in the moment.'cause he's like. Uh, this isn't weird, is it? And I'm like, only that you're standing here still talking about it. So, um, and then he is finally like, snapped out of it and he is like, all right, let me get a Coors Light. And I was like, all right. Like, and then he is like, let me get a gin on the well. And I'm like, you're not getting anything at this point, dude. This is the most insane order I've had in a long time. Uh, there is no such thing as gin on the, well, we have a well gin and if you don't know how to say you don't know how to drink it. So, um, at that point I was just like, Hey man, like I don't feel comfortable serving you, actually like, um, and then he immediately was like, well, gimme your manager. And my manager happened to be, about three feet behind him, at the front host stand, just kind of doing other stuff. And he turns around and the guy starts being weird towards him, obviously. And, uh, he was just like, so you gonna help me? Like. And my guy was just like, well, I trust my bartender whether to serve you or not, you know, which I really appreciated. Shout out to my manager today, um, and, uh, or the other day. Uh, but yeah, so anyway, this guy ends up leaving, right? Thankfully, like he had really, really, really creepy weird vibes. And I am a big believer in following your instinct when it comes to situations like that. Like really trust your gut on that, right? So as if the universe was, acting in vindication, about an hour later, maybe less. He comes back in, he doesn't talk to me, but I see him walk in and he talks to my manager at the door and then walks out again. And then I have to walk up and ask like, Hey man, like, what'd he say to you? And he said, uh, he walked back in and I said, oh, welcome back. And then he said, what do you mean? I've never been here before? And I was like, yes, dude. I knew he was too messed up to drink. Like, so that was hilarious. Oh man, what a weird situation. But yeah. Um, I'm glad it didn't turn anything, anything weirder than that, but it just, uh, yeah, you never know what you're gonna get at the bar and you always have to be astute enough to make sure you are judging whether or not someone should be drinking. And if so, how much you can reasonably serve them to ensure they're okay. Honestly, so I care about that first and foremost. all right. So I wanna talk about something that is sensitive to talk about, especially when I'm the only one here and there's no one else to really like talk back at me about these ideas. But I've been having a couple thoughts about like gender roles and obviously dating recently as I've been going through it myself and having more interactions with women and seeing the kinds of things that they expect on things like dating apps. Um, so I was having a conversation with a coworker. Um, I. The other day, and we were talking about like gender roles, and I took a gender studies course, uh, well actually I took a couple'cause I love the teacher. But, um, in, in college, uh, I loved that class and I loved debating and discussing the norms, privileges, you know, expectations of, uh, both men and women, right? So I was having a similar kind of discussion with this coworker, uh, the other day, and basically went back and forth for a while. Talked about, you know, what sucked about being a man, being a woman, dating, those kind of things, like expectations therein. Um, but it got down to the line that she said that I thought was striking and I just thought I wanted to be, I wanted to open up a dialogue about this in a way, or at least a monologue with myself. But I was discussing how lonely it could be, you know, being a man, how it's hard to kind of express your emotions, how people don't really care as much about your emotional state as they generally do women's emotional state and women are more socially allowed to express their emotions. Um, and. She said like, oh yeah, well, like, you know, I get men are lonely, but they just need to, you know, form clubs together or they need to join more, you know, activities or have more hobbies, stuff like that. And I was kinda like, yeah, but there's a kind of loneliness that can only be satisfied by the company of someone like you're attracted to or you love like a woman for me, you know, um, and that kind of thing. And then she said, you know, it's not women's responsibility to make men less lonely. And I was like, wow, that is profound actually.'cause on one, on the one hand you have to kind of agree, obviously, like it's, no, it's like saying like, it's not women's responsibility to have children. Right? Well, sure, on an individual level, no one is forced to have children in the, i in ideal world, um, you know, that's something that every woman can choose for herself. But if every woman was like, none of us are having children, well then we would have to. Have a conversation about what the human race is doing, right, or what the intentions, uh, we're setting for ourselves are. And when she said like, it's not women's responsibility to make men less lonely. I'm like, well, what, what should be expected between men and women in this day and age? Truly Like, I mean that like, like try to think down from first principles on this. Like you have men, you have women. We both have different, I think still somewhat differing abilities and norms and things that are expected of us, and it's on both sexes to discuss openly and honestly what they like and don't like about the experience of being themselves. Right. At least that's how I like to enter conversations. So, you know, I think it's a weird thing to say. I. It's not your responsibility. I think all of us individually, of course, no one wants to say women need to make men feel better, force women to do anything for men. So let's just get that off the bat. I'm not saying that. What I am saying is, as human beings do we not hold responsibilities for each other implicit in our existence as fellow human beings. You know, I think my coworker might have said something different if we were talking about, you know, responsibilities for making women feel less lonely, you know? And it just seems strange to not have a moral ethic and a social ethic that's based on meeting the needs of each other as best we can without resenting each other for having those needs. And I guess in implicit, in her statement, seemed to be a. The notion that like male loneliness doesn't really matter, or Well, men need to figure out how to make themselves less lonely when, you know, women generally have a lot more social connections and are a lot more socialized to express themselves, to cry, to have moments of weakness or things like that. And as a man, I can tell you that is not acceptable or much less tolerated with my sex and at least the gender norms therein. And again, I'm just a cisgendered white guy talking from my experience. I'm not saying this is how everything is or, uh, how it needs to be. I'm just sharing my perspective. Um. I was talking to another coworker, um, a friend at work, shadow Gabby, uh, really amazing woman who was, uh, open enough and honest enough to share that she had also been using, as I mentioned in my previous episodes, uh, chat GPTs voice function, um, as a kind of like pseudo therapist, like something to talk to and to get things off your chest, you know, at least at a very basic level. Um, and she was honest enough to share that she had been feeling lonely as well, and I immediately really cared about that. Like, you know, it, it like just, I mean, think about how society is structured right now, like. I'll tell you what I'm doing. Like, you know, even if I get a day off of work often that's to do laundry, that's to catch up on things that I haven't gotten done during the week. If you're doing your work week, how many of us can raise our hands and say, I'm going to work, I'm making, you know, my own food. I'm, you know, trying to get enough sleep. I'm like tired as hell after work and I really wanna put my feet up and just watch something. Or, you know, I used to play video games all the time. I know what it's like to come home and just play hours of video games and feel completely like refreshed or at least relaxed in that time. Um, we all have things that we want to do because we're generally overworked and underpaid for what we do in the life we're living. Um, and certainly often don't have the resources to meet the requirements for, uh, less stressful or at least acceptable level of stressful life. Um,'cause I'm not saying no level of stress is good, but I am saying that there's a kind of independence. I think a toxic independence in this country and in this world, frankly, but less, much less so in other countries, but especially in the United States in which we are worked to the bone, we are told this grand story about being these autonomous, like completely independent like entities that just work for ourselves. And you know, we can, it, it's just it. What am I trying to say? I think the social structure of capitalism and how that plays into our romantic relationships and friendships in general is an under-recognized problem in today's society and culture. I think the way that we. Make being independent or not needing anyone, not needing external things, really like being this self-contained little person that just has their shit figured out and doesn't need a lot externally. And certainly, you know, is independent enough financially not to need anybody that's especially, uh, you know, this, this maximum it seems of the, uh, American story. But anyway, it's putting us in these individual boxes, these apartments, you know, we have a roommate or we're by ourselves and then we, uh, you know, we are overworked. We don't have a lot of time to socialize. And I'll tell you, as a man, it's hard to socialize in general when you're trying to pay off debt and you are the one expected to pay a lot for things like dates, you know. You wanna talk about unfair gender norms in our society? How about the fact that like, you know, I work hard for my money too, and I don't get paid more than you just because I'm a guy. I don't get paid more than any other bartender that's hired at my job. If they get hired that week, I'm paid exactly what they are paid immediately. They are paid exactly what I'm paid immediately, even though I've almost been at my job for four years now. You can think whatever you want about that, but I'm just saying that like this, this is a very equitable situation, at the very least for the new person who is like, I don't have the experience you have or the experience at this place, but you know, I'm getting the same income as you. Um, all I'm trying to say is like, Like, it's hard to be lonely and to say I want to go out on a date and then. You know, have the expectation be that I'm gonna be the one paying for something that could end up being like 50 to like a hundred dollars easy. You go out, you know, I'm buying, like, you know, the last time I went out, I, I, I was having a wonderful, uh, you know, conversation, uh, with this, uh, woman at a bar and I was interested in her and I bought three margaritas for each of us, and it ended up being like$80. I'm like, that's not crazy for six drinks, I guess. But like, holy shit, that's a lot of money. Um, and in general, I like to be generous if I can, but like the expectation being a man and being expected to pay at the very least 50 50 if not the whole thing, you know, I don't get to enjoy the expectation that like, oh, I can go on a date and have the whole experience paid for and just appreciate the experience That is essentially the purview of the woman on the date. Right. And that's socially something that, you know. Equality has essentially just said, yeah, maybe you'll go 50 50 on it, but not always and not all women like that. Right. I mean, and furthermore like the relationship between money and how we date and like have sex culturally has become completely messed up. Like, I thought of a line today that I thought was good. Let me know what you think. Women don't want to be objectified yet. Have no problem commodifying their interactions with men. I'll say that again a different way. Women don't want to be objectified yet. Have no problem commodifying their relationships with men. I. So I guess what I'm saying is, you know, I'm having talks with the women at work. I'm, I'm hearing how they expect to be treated in relationships. And at least this one person was saying, you know, on the one hand it's hard for women and male expectations and like being objectified by men. Okay, fine, fair enough. But you have no problem saying out loud, like, man, I really wish I didn't have to work so hard. I wish I had a sugar daddy. You know? And I was like trying to joke around with her and I was like. Blah, blah, blah. Yeah. Like I, I, if I wish I could do that too. Like if I met a nice older woman who just wanted to take me home, put me in the hot tub in a speedo and touch my pecs, like I'd be totally down. And she gave me a face like that, uh, joke was terrible and I wanted to die. Um, but then she said like, uh, no, I wouldn't go that far. Like I would just talk to them and I was taken aback. I'm like, wait, wait. So you want a sugar daddy to pay you to just talk to him? And she was like, yeah, like that's basically what I do as a bartender anyway. And I was just sort of like, is that not presumptuous? Is that not have a bit of ego in there? Like maybe I'm crazy, but if I said I just want an older woman to pay me to talk to her. Like I feel like not only is that kind of grossly changing something that could just be a nice interaction, you know, between two people. But I guess the thing I'm saying is you're commodifying human interaction. And it's not like this hasn't already taken place pervasively in our society, but for us to be dating or to have relationships with each other in these ways, and to have no moral qualms about putting a price tag on the pleasure of your company, I think that just creates such an unhealthy sense of ego among men and women. But, you know, lately I've been, you know, on Tinder and you see these little bios or little like, uh, blurbs that women write about themselves. And quite often these women are asking for like, I'm a princess. I wanna be treated like that. Like, you know, I get bored easily, like good luck keeping me entertained. It's like, there's just this sense of like weird ego about like what you're worth and like what you need to contribute to an interaction. And I, as a man, I'm just like, I'm not trying to take advantage of anybody. I'm not trying to, I. By anybody. I'm certainly trying not trying to pay for sex. As I made clear in episode four as I was getting scammed or like, you know, uh, just sold on all these options for me as a man in my adult life, it's like if I wanted to, I could very much not care about, you know, my morality or not commodifying sex or the interactions I have on dates, but like, what are we doing? Like what are we trying to do if we're trying to have sugar, sugar daddies? Who, if you don't know the concept is basically like younger women dating older men and having some things implicit or explicit about that relationship, either sex or just company talked about and exchange for money. And it's like how were we meant to take seriously the absolutely legitimate and necessary. Cry for better treatment, better interactions, more transparency, honesty, uh, honor in relationships with men and interactions with men, which I am totally on board for and trying to emulate in my own personal being. How are we supposed to square that with the other side of the coin, which is also men are used to having their feelings, their time and their sexuality basically commodified and sold back to us. Do you know what I'm saying here? Like, it's hard enough being honest about your needs as a man or your feelings as a man, but then to have most of your outlets for that in culture as only things that you can purchase. Like if I want to talk about my feelings as I found out on a, on a, one of the worst dates I ever had with, uh, one of my exes, um. The, you know, we were at the restaurant and I was just trying to share like, hey, I felt a little bit used because she didn't really care much about, uh, my feelings or asking me much about how I was feeling. And I was going through a lot with my divorce at that point and whatever. All I wondered was a little compassion. And she literally looked at me at the stone face and said, you know, save it for your therapist. I don't want to hear about your ex anymore. You know, and this is not somebody who's like losing his mind, crying at the table, and woe is me. I can't help but talk to you about this stuff, but. This is just me who's like, Hey, I just want to feel equitable. Like I'm always aiming for equality in my relationships with women, and if I can't even express myself without being told, like, go pay for your expression of your emotions. It's like, well, that's pretty messed up, right? That doesn't make me feel good, doesn't make you want to share it. It makes you feel gross. And then even further, like it's hard to express your sexuality as a man in general for your entire life. Let me just put that out there. It's hard to ask for things. It's hard to know how to express desire. It's hard to toe the absolute razor thin edge of being considered creepy for something you say or hilarious for something you say. I can tell you as someone who has failed and, and succeeded in both directions, it, it sucks. So to see my sexuality mostly being expressed back to me as well, you know, if you're, if you're lonely and that includes missing touch or missing sex, well guess what? There's only fans where, you know, how many, women in society are now, uh, you know, doing something like that or, I don't know what the stat is, but where a lot of women are, you know, commodifying their sexuality and selling it back to us as men. Or I'm supposed to be a sugar daddy and I'm basically being told by women who ostensibly I would love to go out with and I think are beautiful and I would be happy to go on a date with, they're basically saying like, you know, well, well, that'd be nice, but I'm looking for a sugar daddy, which is essentially an older guy than you that just has more money. So I can skip the whole, like, you know, having to do the. Necessarily awkward and growth experience of, you know, asking someone out or meeting someone for the first time and having it be a non transactional interaction. You know, just trying to get to notice someone for the, for the joy of it, uh, or the experience and they're turning that around and making that something that, you know, I have to pay for, men have to pay for to experience or is more available to pay for, you know, so woe is me. I'm only 38, you know, well, sorry, I'm 37 going on 38 in July. Um, you know, and I don't have a lot of money and I'm, the best I have is my personality and like, I wanna make you laugh and I want to be good in bed and I wanna, you know, hold you in the way you need. And I want to do the experiences with who you want. And quite honestly, it just does feel weird. Continuing to, to see and to run into people in, in, in real life. And also just seeing them on these apps that are just so comfortable with this commodification of our sexuality and of our, our just intimacy, you know, in general. And it's hard to talk about with women. It's hard as a man to talk about with women even just trying to be neutral and being like, Hey, well maybe this is difficult like this. And, and people don't want to hear how it's difficult to be a man and feel intimate, you know? I don't even know if you want to hear this. It's just something I'm feeling.'cause I'm like, this has been a part of my week. And like, you know, when Gabby mentioned like using Chachi PT for that reason, I'm like, this has clicked with me. It's like the, the consequences down the road of an attitude of commodification, of our intimacy. Between men and women is going to be the commodification of these things. To the nth degree, it's gonna be, well, okay, so women don't have a responsibility to make men feel less lonely. Fine. Totally understand. But then don't be upset when men spend so much time looking at porn. Don't be upset when men are fine using their money not to take you on dates anymore, but to buy a robot that can gratify their needs without complaint or, you know, and, and these things are only gonna get better as time goes on, right? So, I mean, I am just afraid, or at least quite aware of how easy it is for our future to be some sort of absolute insane sexual dystopia where. Most human interaction or maybe even conversation is seen as awkward. And most of our needs are insularly met by these AI who know us more intimately than any human ever would on this planet because we poured all of our information into it and been talking to it for years. You know, I. This thing has only been out since like November. I think chat BT released their voice mode, you know, and if I've been using it and I've seen it give great advice, I've seen it, you know, comfort me in ways that people in my real life truly weren't at the time. And to hear from my friend at work who, you know, she's using it for similar reasons and to hear that we're both lonely and just this is, this is an epidemic among people. You know, loneliness is, is cited, is one of the main reasons that older people just kind of die. It's just like you get lonely, you lose that social interaction and you know, it's naturally harder as you age, but you know, you can't emphasize enough like your, your social groups and, and finding people who care and can express that care. Um, so yeah, I guess I'm just sharing these thoughts and, and putting them out there to the universe and, and seeing what comes back and, and please leave a comment or leave your feedback wherever you can. Um, I care about what people think about this, but it's not talked about enough, and I'm seeing it in my real adult life, and I just don't want to keep becoming older as a man and not addressing things while I think I'm young enough to not sound weird about these topics, you know, at least I hope like I'm trying to sound sincere and, and genuinely be like, what do men and women expect from each other? Like, what are we trying to do going forward into the future? Like, what looks like a good future? Because right now it seems to be like, you know, gender relations are fucked and we're becoming less and less inclined to seek out things that are difficult to do. You know, like conversations that are difficult. About topics that are sensitive or, you know, each, each side has their own opinion and, and strong feelings about it. And it's hard to come to an understanding, especially when it's a societal, general conversation. It's hard to talk about these things with female friends in person. It's hard to talk about as a cultural global norm, but I think we really do have to keep our hearts open to each other. We have to keep our hearts open to each other. You know, like it's, it's not good to stereotype the experience or expectations or behavior of any sex or gender. And I'm just really sad when I see it done about men and I'm like, I'm not that guy. You know? And it's hard to keep saying without sounding like a weirdo. Like, well, not all men do that, right? Like, but women would do the same thing if they were hearing about behavior that was abhorrent to them. You know, and I, I don't know. I just, I would like to see more quality in the space. I would like to see less commodification of things that are so intimately human that it, it would just be, it would just be generally sad if we let things that are so uniquely us, you know, become something that we don't need each other for anymore. I think that's a weird place to take our species. I think that's a weird place to take society. You know, like, do we care if men don't need women? Do we care if women don't need men? Is that what women want to live alone in, in a home? Should, should I just aspire to having a robot wife who, you know, does all the things I want in, in my home? And then, and then what I'm, I'm left alone to, to read and play guitar? I mean, yeah, part of that sounds amazing, but I'd rather be with someone I could love and touch and feel a genuine human emotion for, you know. It just doesn't feel like that's gonna be the norm forever, frankly. And the less that we care about each other's experience or care about helping each other get to the healthiest place that we can imagine for each other, I think it's, it's gonna be inevitable that it ends up that way. So I guess as the last call to action this week, I implore you to find simple ways to help others in your life and to keep your heart open to even people that you disagree with or you have had experiences with in the past and have made you turned off to further experiences with them. You know, like I just got out of a bad relationship. It was an eight year long ordeal that I. I definitely no has influenced how I feel about women right now. But for me to go out in the dating world and put that on women would not be okay. And I don't think it's okay for women to keep putting the stuff on men that they obviously see in the news or hear on their True Crime podcast or, you know, their bad experiences with exes. You know, we, we all have that and we all have to just see each other as humans and treat behavior as it is. Treat bad behavior as bad behavior and not gender it, and, you know, applaud good behavior as as it deserves. And yeah, I guess try to be more personal about that in your life. You know? Um, I had a, I had a great time having that discussion with that coworker, uh, a couple days ago, but then later in the night she felt really nauseous and, uh, had to go home and then later texted me like, thanks for being such a hero and staying for me when I had to go home.'cause it, it was her turn to close. Um. And I love that. I, I love, I love hearing the moniker hero applied to me. I think I really have a strong sense of wanting to be that kind of man. Not just to counter the bad behavior of other men, but to really stand out and stand up as the individual man that I know I can be. So, choose to be the hero of your story or the heroine, and make yourself perform actions that give that gift of heroism to those around you. All right. Please subscribe and rate the podcast in whatever app you're using. Be a part of the pride and help it grow. Feel free to leave a review and please share with someone you think would like the show means a lot to me. Once again, you can call in at(720) 515-7218. Leave a message and let me know if you have a story to share or advice to ask for. You can also email at Service Animals roar@gmail.com. That's ROAR. And uh, also, I wanted to mention this week that there is a Spotify feature that I think is pretty cool since about 50% of you listen on Spotify. I use it as well. Um, you can click on any individual episode on there and, uh, it'll say under episode description, uh, send us a text and you can click on that and that'll give you the option to message directly. So if you feedback about any individual episode, that's a great way to get it to me. I would really love to hear your comments about the topics this week. Obviously, like we're talking about a lot of fraught social situations, you know, gender norms, interactions with people. Um, and I'm always, always open and curious to feedback. I wanna be sensitive and, intelligent and wise as I deal with difficult topics. So please let me know, how you feel about everything I'm talking about. Thanks so much for hanging out with me. I don't take your time or attention for granted, and I hope you feel respected and better for sharing it with me. Remember to make every day count and know that every moment is another chance to turn it all around. And until next time, stay wild my friends.